Not so much a wanker, which to me implies intentionality - you don't accidentally have a quick one off the wrist, do you?
No, he's just very stupid, profoundly ignorant, lacking social skills, extremely gullible (as is exemplified by his belief in that cretinous charlatan Graham Hancox), and on top of all this, he doesn't know it. He thinks he's really smart and iconoclastic.
I'll have you know I've not always been a bloody-minded curmugeon. (http://www.livejournal.com/users/hirez/1152.html) It took at least a year for me to realise that all customers are annoying halfwits...
Anyway.
'Smarter clients' tends to imply some level of rule-based malarkey or Complex Statistical Analysis on behalf of the MUA. Unless you mean sending all the users in for a clue-installation...
I also fear that the only 'regulation' the spammers will understand will be a cricket bat across the knuckles and/or slamming their cocks in the fridge door. Or combinations thereof.
It's like dealing with ferrets, student (or dole-scum) housemates or annoying bloody language-lawyers on the usenet - the sort of people/things who consider that co-operation is for communists, will do whatever they want just because they can (and were probably the sort of nasty brats who used phrases like 'finders keepers losers weepers' as children) and are just generally crap. (The 'anarchy means I can steal your video and you can't do anything about it' argument. 'Right. And I can go break your legs until you understand you're on the losing side of the video-thieving cost/benefit analysis...')
Sorry, was I ranting?
So. The only way to deal with them is to incrementally wire the options (padlocks on the fridge if they steal your beer - that sort of thing) until the only recourse, if they've not taken the hint, is massive over-reaction. It's hard to mistake the intent behind a good shoeing.
I agree. But in the meantime, even the latest AOL mail client (AOL Communicator, still in beta) - I mean, really, AOL - cuts my spam load by half, 137 out of 263. First run, untrained. There was one real mail - I counted it, twice - in that lot.
That's good. It's getting better, too; after a couple of weeks, it's getting 75% or so now and climbing.
And it's piss-easy.
This is worth having. Alongside kneecapping spammers once they get out of gaol.
Yes. I'll admit that I run PopFile at home (99.mumble% accurate) and S-A in Bayes mode at work. And Bogofilter as a test.
But this is all at the poor-bastard-paying-end of the transaction, which I think is the wrong place.
When I worked at Another, we were plagued with spammers for a while. While the DUL/RBL services helped with the incoming junk, it was a lot more embarrassing having to deal with spam coming from internal punters. (They mostly seemed to come from Florida. Funny that...)
As an experiment, I cribbed some code from 'cleanfeed' (the nntp despammer of choice) and... It worked very nicely ta. It also tickled a bug in the Java 'code', so it never got implemented. :/
We already know that yer average ISP doesn't trust its customer-base worth a light (hell, I never did), so running a Bayesian filter on the 'inside' of their own relays is a logical and correct step. They could, after all, find themselves catching trojanned spam-proxys themselves.
Oh yes. Just like RSS. And 802.11b will usher in a new era of Commerce, weblogging salons and Starbucks. Just as soon as the EuroCommies throw away that nasty GSM tat and revel in the Pax Americana...
... Oh, fuck off.
(Hey, am I channelling Andy Orlowski yet?)
I'm sure there were other things that were going to Change The World, but damned if I can recall any of them...
Well, quite. We've already got a near-ubiquitous supply of wireless bandwidth that has a fantastically low barrier-to-entry (See any PAYG iBooks + 802.11 kit? No, I don't believe you do.) and is run by a de-facto utility.
This is yet another problem I have with Septics in general and CorybloodyDoctorowYesIKnowHe'sCanadianYou'dThinkHe'dKnowBetter in particular - the implicit assumption that Big Business Will Provide, and if they don't the Rugged Individualist American Frontiersman will jolly well Heinlein his way out of trouble. Yeah - slurping coffee while weblogging in a trafficjam of SUVs is really going to make Daniel Boone proud. [You'd never guess I'd been at the American social history books, would you?] I don't know how many more spectacular failures of privatised utilities we'll need to see before it's understood that infrastructure (water, power, railways, roads (if you must) and... Communications) should all be viewed as a public good to be held in trust for the nation by groups of benevolent and far-sighted engineering-types.
Ok, that'll need a radical (in the black flag and shooting manner) change of governmental style, but a chap can dream...
It's more or less the same bloody argument we've just had over broadband - it's not the absolute bandwidth that's important, it's the ubiquity and the fixed cost. A future where I have a phone-thing in my pocket (or at least the wireless terminal part of my PAN infrastructure) which is also where my what-equates-to-a-weblog resides, rather than on a machine far away - how 90s is that? - that I choose to interact with it how I will, will be a good place.
[This should be a post/say, rather than a comment. The people who I want to see this (that's you that is, Sulston) may well pass it by.]
Sportal? Didn't they have a mongo auction of all sorts of mad toys a couple of years ago?
I guess they'll catch up in the end, but not till their cellular operators mature a bit, and the Yoof take up the cheap stuff so enthusiastically that the grownups can't ignore it any more. It takes a bit of experience of cellular ubiquity before it seems so obviously the right thing.
*Laughter* I shall tell him about this. Good man, Andy. Exceptionally jammy, also, wangling relocation to CA just about titsup.com time and keeping it. So we don't go drinking much.
A wooly headed Macista writes: Word on the Heinlein reference - that's exactly it. You see the parallel universe wifi story that Cory was working on with Charles Stross? Glenn Fleischman's wifinetnews is great reading for this stuff - read about a new unworkable business model every day, and keep up with the latest GSM/Bluetooth FUD from the bubble. But, pull or push, I do find RSS and NetNewsWire very helpful in keeping up with the latest deluded nonsense, and so maybe you should consider having a feed for this very reason. Plus, I wouldn't end up positing to your threads a week late.
..Mark.. (the CIXen formerly known as pascal).. http://homepage.mac.com/mark.allerton/
Hey, I always make sure the people I'm slating are in different countries...
However, sir is in full possession of the nut of it - there is just so much complete arse talked/written/weblogged about WifiBlogRss that any vaguely good bits that may or may not come out of it are likely to be soiled by the dribblings of a myriad lackwits with laptops and more opinion than brain.
The CoryStory's an interesting thing. As short stories go, it's... Ok. Owes something to Sterling, I feel, but that's by the by. It made me go dig out their previous collaboration (jury service?) and a random other thing online that Mr. Stross wrote, and that was... Woah. Quatermass vs. Cthulu.
The feed thing is hard. I really care for the social dynamic of LJ (ugly, mewling and broken thing that it can be notwithstanding) over the Rik-from-the-Young-Ones feel ("Everybody pay attention to me!") of the various weblogs. I guess while I'm arrogant enough to consider that people would want to pay attention to this here, I'm not quite sure that I would want to relegate the concomitant argument and ribaldry (Jayzus. When did I turn into Will Self?) to a secondary window. And MT doesn't do threaded comments. How shit's that? (I know damn well that there's a plug-in for it. I cannae get the wee buggir to work. It's not much of a plug-in if you've to arse with about 15 different bits of source-file and stylesheet through a postage-stamp-sized text-entry box.
[ Sigh ]
One day it'll all cross-wotsit and you'll be able to get an (A)RSS(E) feed from LJ that will syndicate into MT where you'll be able to reply and have cross-site threading and non-public postings will work because of Magic PKI and...
... We could call it Usenet With Pictures.
Not that I would wish to denigrate anyone's chosen method of post-Cix whatchamacallit. Obviously.
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momijizukamori
no subject
Date: 2003-07-15 04:47 am (UTC)No, he's just very stupid, profoundly ignorant, lacking social skills, extremely gullible (as is exemplified by his belief in that cretinous charlatan Graham Hancox), and on top of all this, he doesn't know it. He thinks he's really smart and iconoclastic.
The result is still a PITA, mind.
no subject
Date: 2003-07-15 06:01 am (UTC)I've had to put up with that level of bullshit in the pub, and 'wanker' fits quite well.
It's a set of stupid ideas held together with a good deal of handwaving.
Maybe the answer is to do the filtering on the other end of the SMTP transaction. It works for Usenet.
no subject
Date: 2003-07-15 06:16 am (UTC)Filtering? I think much smarter clients and legal regulation are the only way...
no subject
Date: 2003-07-15 07:03 am (UTC)Anyway.
'Smarter clients' tends to imply some level of rule-based malarkey or Complex Statistical Analysis on behalf of the MUA. Unless you mean sending all the users in for a clue-installation...
I also fear that the only 'regulation' the spammers will understand will be a cricket bat across the knuckles and/or slamming their cocks in the fridge door. Or combinations thereof.
It's like dealing with ferrets, student (or dole-scum) housemates or annoying bloody language-lawyers on the usenet - the sort of people/things who consider that co-operation is for communists, will do whatever they want just because they can (and were probably the sort of nasty brats who used phrases like 'finders keepers losers weepers' as children) and are just generally crap. (The 'anarchy means I can steal your video and you can't do anything about it' argument. 'Right. And I can go break your legs until you understand you're on the losing side of the video-thieving cost/benefit analysis...')
Sorry, was I ranting?
So. The only way to deal with them is to incrementally wire the options (padlocks on the fridge if they steal your beer - that sort of thing) until the only recourse, if they've not taken the hint, is massive over-reaction. It's hard to mistake the intent behind a good shoeing.
Or something like that.
no subject
Date: 2003-07-16 04:02 am (UTC)Ranting? Yes, but it's permitted.
I agree. But in the meantime, even the latest AOL mail client (AOL Communicator, still in beta) - I mean, really, AOL - cuts my spam load by half, 137 out of 263. First run, untrained. There was one real mail - I counted it, twice - in that lot.
That's good. It's getting better, too; after a couple of weeks, it's getting 75% or so now and climbing.
And it's piss-easy.
This is worth having. Alongside kneecapping spammers once they get out of gaol.
no subject
Date: 2003-07-16 05:49 am (UTC)But this is all at the poor-bastard-paying-end of the transaction, which I think is the wrong place.
When I worked at Another, we were plagued with spammers for a while. While the DUL/RBL services helped with the incoming junk, it was a lot more embarrassing having to deal with spam coming from internal punters. (They mostly seemed to come from Florida. Funny that...)
As an experiment, I cribbed some code from 'cleanfeed' (the nntp despammer of choice) and... It worked very nicely ta. It also tickled a bug in the Java 'code', so it never got implemented. :/
We already know that yer average ISP doesn't trust its customer-base worth a light (hell, I never did), so running a Bayesian filter on the 'inside' of their own relays is a logical and correct step. They could, after all, find themselves catching trojanned spam-proxys themselves.
no subject
Date: 2003-07-16 06:45 am (UTC)And I'll migrate my own systems to a mature, planned architecture any year now, I swear.
no subject
Date: 2003-07-15 05:29 am (UTC)You want deliberate wankerosity ? Take a look at RSS 2.0 / Echo et al.
no subject
Date: 2003-07-15 05:53 am (UTC)It's handbags at twenty paces for the most part.
Still, it (WifiBlogRss)[1] keeps the woolly-headed little Macistas away from anything dangerous, so it's probably a Good Thing.
[1]: It's the new push/marimba/mftl.
no subject
Date: 2003-07-15 07:47 am (UTC)Wasn't it going to have changed the world by now ?
no subject
Date: 2003-07-15 08:08 am (UTC)... Oh, fuck off.
(Hey, am I channelling Andy Orlowski yet?)
I'm sure there were other things that were going to Change The World, but damned if I can recall any of them...
Ah! Portals! Whatever they were...
no subject
Date: 2003-07-15 10:32 am (UTC)Remember Sportal ?
no subject
Date: 2003-07-16 05:34 am (UTC)This is yet another problem I have with Septics in general and CorybloodyDoctorowYesIKnowHe'sCanadianYou'dThinkHe'dKnowBetter in particular - the implicit assumption that Big Business Will Provide, and if they don't the Rugged Individualist American Frontiersman will jolly well Heinlein his way out of trouble. Yeah - slurping coffee while weblogging in a trafficjam of SUVs is really going to make Daniel Boone proud. [You'd never guess I'd been at the American social history books, would you?] I don't know how many more spectacular failures of privatised utilities we'll need to see before it's understood that infrastructure (water, power, railways, roads (if you must) and... Communications) should all be viewed as a public good to be held in trust for the nation by groups of benevolent and far-sighted engineering-types.
Ok, that'll need a radical (in the black flag and shooting manner) change of governmental style, but a chap can dream...
It's more or less the same bloody argument we've just had over broadband - it's not the absolute bandwidth that's important, it's the ubiquity and the fixed cost. A future where I have a phone-thing in my pocket (or at least the wireless terminal part of my PAN infrastructure) which is also where my what-equates-to-a-weblog resides, rather than on a machine far away - how 90s is that? - that I choose to interact with it how I will, will be a good place.
[This should be a post/say, rather than a comment. The people who I want to see this (that's you that is, Sulston) may well pass it by.]
Sportal? Didn't they have a mongo auction of all sorts of mad toys a couple of years ago?
no subject
Date: 2003-07-16 07:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-07-16 03:59 am (UTC)*Laughter* I shall tell him about this. Good man, Andy. Exceptionally jammy, also, wangling relocation to CA just about titsup.com time and keeping it. So we don't go drinking much.
no subject
Date: 2003-07-20 12:03 pm (UTC)Word on the Heinlein reference - that's exactly it. You see the parallel universe wifi story that Cory was working on with Charles Stross? Glenn Fleischman's wifinetnews is great reading for this stuff - read about a new unworkable business model every day, and keep up with the latest GSM/Bluetooth FUD from the bubble. But, pull or push, I do find RSS and NetNewsWire very helpful in keeping up with the latest deluded nonsense, and so maybe you should consider having a feed for this very reason. Plus, I wouldn't end up positing to your threads a week late.
..Mark.. (the CIXen formerly known as pascal)..
http://homepage.mac.com/mark.allerton/
no subject
Date: 2003-07-20 01:09 pm (UTC)However, sir is in full possession of the nut of it - there is just so much complete arse talked/written/weblogged about WifiBlogRss that any vaguely good bits that may or may not come out of it are likely to be soiled by the dribblings of a myriad lackwits with laptops and more opinion than brain.
The CoryStory's an interesting thing. As short stories go, it's... Ok. Owes something to Sterling, I feel, but that's by the by. It made me go dig out their previous collaboration (jury service?) and a random other thing online that Mr. Stross wrote, and that was... Woah. Quatermass vs. Cthulu.
The feed thing is hard. I really care for the social dynamic of LJ (ugly, mewling and broken thing that it can be notwithstanding) over the Rik-from-the-Young-Ones feel ("Everybody pay attention to me!") of the various weblogs. I guess while I'm arrogant enough to consider that people would want to pay attention to this here, I'm not quite sure that I would want to relegate the concomitant argument and ribaldry (Jayzus. When did I turn into Will Self?) to a secondary window. And MT doesn't do threaded comments. How shit's that? (I know damn well that there's a plug-in for it. I cannae get the wee buggir to work. It's not much of a plug-in if you've to arse with about 15 different bits of source-file and stylesheet through a postage-stamp-sized text-entry box.
[ Sigh ]
One day it'll all cross-wotsit and you'll be able to get an (A)RSS(E) feed from LJ that will syndicate into MT where you'll be able to reply and have cross-site threading and non-public postings will work because of Magic PKI and...
... We could call it Usenet With Pictures.
Not that I would wish to denigrate anyone's chosen method of post-Cix whatchamacallit. Obviously.
no subject
Date: 2003-07-20 05:56 pm (UTC)You don't have to leave LiveJournal to get RSS - I know it can be done because DJ has a feed. Or am I missing something?
..Mark..
no subject
Date: 2003-07-21 05:00 am (UTC)Sod. Amazon's a terrible thing...
http://www.livejournal.com/users/hirez/rss/ apparently.
no subject
Date: 2003-07-21 07:40 am (UTC)Anyway it works... you now are an official sex slave of Dave Winer. Cheers.
no subject
Date: 2003-07-21 07:44 am (UTC)Ugh! Jesus! Thank you for a quite repulsive mental image...
(It's not RDF-flavour?
no subject
Date: 2003-07-18 02:37 pm (UTC)