Blame Northside

[hirez]

Well that about wraps it up for g*th. Mr Mercer is entirely correct in his estimations of the current UK scene, how things are on the mainland, Whitby (Google for 'Whitby weekend' - you'll find more mentions of a northen soul weekender, which is both a good and fine thing of itself and largely indicative of what WGW really is) and the startlingly fine writings of one Uncle Nem. It seems almost redundant to point out that if the eminence noir of (UK?) g*th is convinced that the game's up, then it's high time that several tens of unemployables put down their DATs, backed away from the drum machines and toddled off down the labour exchange.

On the other hand, he seems to lay the blame squarely on the bands, which I'm not entirely sure is cricket. Yes, most bands are now running it as an evenings-and-weekends thing that makes it look like a hobby for the middle-class, but that's because it's become largely impossible to go squat someplace and 'live' off the dole in order to pursue your art. I could be wrong though - I don't know how the DIY punk or indie crowd run things because I don't get over to The Legendary TJ's anywhere as often as I like. (Mostly because I'm concerned about Newport Youth's reaction to my car...)

It may also be that unless you can wade into the market with a coke-budget the size of Belgium, you're not going to get the records into the shops because The Majors (all six of them) have the distribution channels sewn up. (Is that a money or funny-handshake thing?) Though that doesn't really explain how random dance twelve-inchers pitch up in the chart. (Though much less so now) Hell - the last time I looked it was 5-600 notes for 500 12" records pressed up and TNTed from the Czech Republic. How many days charlie is that?

[ There was more, but I'm not sure it's relevant. ]

[Update: Splendid stuff! (Thieved from Wendles)]

Comments

[reddragdiva]

I wonder if he has seen or intends to see Deathboy.

The live scene in the UK appears to me to be FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE. I realise I was utterly spoilt by Melbourne, which really honest to God is ROCK CITY. But Jesus - tell me the rest of the UK isn't like London and that there's anywhere bands can, like, play without payola.

[zotz]

It's not just goff bands that don't play as much or attract as much interest - bands generally don't. And venues aren't as interested in having bands as they are in having clubs, because clubs are a better and more reliable earner. Goffs, in turn, don't spend as much money on gigs and records because they're spending it on mobile phones and clothes and DVDs, AFAICT. What's happened isn't unique to the goth scene. I'm not entirely sure that it's particularly bad compared to the live music scene generally. For a lot of bands, three or four dates now constitutes a UK tour. Ten or fifteen years ago, any serious touring band would do that many in Scotland alone (Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and maybe somewhere like Dundee also).

[yaruar.livejournal.com]

there is a great and vibrant live music scene in london...

just not in the goth scene, for many reasons. Mainly though because no one actually goes to gigs when they are on and no one in there right mind is going to promote bands for such an apathetic scene....

Slimelight and other clubs can get 100's of people every week to go down. But anyone puts a band on, unless they are a big foreign draw, you will end up with their mates and a handful of fans turning up... it's been declining for a long time and nothing seems to be stopping it...
One of my pet theories is the whole prevelance of ebm on the scene and the fact that ebm on the whole doesn't work that well in the live environment, but crowds have been dying for a long time....

To put some comparison on it, when I was at 6th form I was in a piss poor punk band called Autonomy down in Surrey... We put on a gig ourselves, promoted ourselves, sold tickets ourselves, etc and sold out a 300 person venue (and made a tidy amount of beer money...) I can't see 300+ random goths turning up for a gig of an unknown band, even london scene bands have trouble pulling enough for the smallest venue.....

[yaruar.livejournal.com]

I don't know about the rest of the country but I could name off the top of my head 20+ small venues in london which have bands on almost every night of the week.

[hirez.livejournal.com]

I'm obviously a little out of the loop (I'm bloody old enough to have earned it, mind) but I used to rather enjoy going up the Bull & Gate and/or Dublin Castle to view scratchy indie combos and slurp Guinness. About half of them would be reasonably bad on any given night, but I did get to see Hirameka Hi-Fi on an early outing. (And feel I ought to be telling them to get on home and finish their chemistry homework...)

[girfan.livejournal.com]

But how many of those bands make money doing so?

I went to a gig last year in Islington: Ghost of Lemora, Womb and Cauda Pavonis. Womb left the stage 1/2 way through the set when they realised they weren't even going to get Tube fare for being there. Cauda Pavonis drove 240 miles round trip for not much more than that. The "promoter" (I use this term loosely) put a few flyers in Camden and had a strop when none of the bands pulled more than 10 people each into the place...on a weeknight!

There are venues in Bristol who have bands on most nights, but the majority are covers or tribute bands-which seem to draw huge crowds.

[hazeii.livejournal.com]

He's just miffed at being relegated to a backwater, I reckon.

Oh, how the Empire crumbles.

Long ranty reply

[mina-laury.livejournal.com]

The 'you don't count, you must mutate your scene to attract younger punters and never mind whether you like the end result' argument always has got on my tits. *shrug*. And Mr Mercer always has had a bit of a bee in his bonnet about UK goth bands. Look at the introduction to 21st Century Goth.

There are under-20s out there trying to get into goth, and in many cases actually getting the point and arriving there. I know this because they constantly write me everything from heartfelt letters to things I cannot be bothered deciphering from the original 1337 about my webpage, and that's one sample of a bog-standard goth webpage that I haven't updated in a year and a half. I suspect that almost every little page with a 'this is why I wear black' section and some pictures of cats gets a similar trickle of emails, and high-profile sites get many more.

The thing is, looking at my inbox, I don't think bands are the only thing drawing them towards g*th. In a lot of cases they don't mention bands at all. I know that's liable to make a lot of old musos froth, and I'm sorry about it, because I generally like old musos and they're generally good about telling me what I want to order if I happen to find myself in a Real Ale establishment, but there it is.

I'm not convinced recruitment is entirely the bands' problem, or that the g*th scene will cease to exist if things get a bit dire on the music front - I managed to find it during the mid-nineties slump, after all. Besides, I'm not sure things are dire on the music front.

As for Whitby - yeah, so people go for the camaraderie and not to be challenged by someone onstage overinterpreting what a violet whining sound ought to be for forty-five minutes. That's not goths for you, that's people for you. Sorry.

[ex-wendles389.livejournal.com]

For general gigs in this area I often check gigwise (http://www.gigwise.com/index2.html) which covers a lot of venues in Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds and Sheffield (Manchester and Liverpool in particular seem to have something on somewhere every night of the week).
I can't say I've been to many gothy gigs so far this year though and the ones that there have been I think were on week-nights which I couldn't make (e.g. when the Cruxshadows were on last Thursday I was away) - however if I'm keen then I do try and see bands elsewhere over the weekends.

[yaruar.livejournal.com]

well, I've not been gigging for 6 months or so, but I suspect if anone pitches up at the castle, or the waterrats or the barfly or similar venue most week nights they will end up seeing random bands of indeterminate quality for well under a fiver...

[yaruar.livejournal.com]

outside of the goth scene the bands I know are all doing well enough. Very few of them make a living from it, but still most get enough to pay for equipment/travel and a few beers in the short term.
Some plugged away and got quite successful too.

I think in the uk goth scene there is a bit of a catch 22 going on. There is a potential fanbase out there, but they don't get to see bands and don't go to see them.

[thepaintedone.livejournal.com]

I just dont think all that many people are interested in 'trad' goth anymore. Very few musical styles survive without change for more than a couple of years and lets be honest the only things that has kept the goth scene alive is the fierce sense of cameraderie within the scene (aided and abeted greatly by the online community) and the rise of EBM.

Gigs are largely attended by the young, and most young people who consider themselves goth are into Nu Metal, those who are in the more traditional goth scene wear Neon colours and like EBM.

Neither is it really relevent whats happening in Germany (or anywhere else for that matter). Different societies have different tastes and different things are popular. Germany made David Hasslehoff one of thier top stars for Gods sake!

Its a difficult thing for the 'oldies' to see thier scene crumble steadily away, something those of us who used to hail in the Glam scene know only too well, but such is life. To be honest Goth is damned lucky to have lasted as long as it has.

[sarah-mum.livejournal.com]

Is that last bit question 5 from the new CGSE maths exam?

I'd make it last just under a week assuming small (i.e me + 1) number of consumers and bulk buy discount.

Of course, this does not factor in the Westbrook-like apetites of some which would make it more oh, 7 hours.

[zotz]

Even 200 wouldn't be many for a place the size of London. There are certainly well over 200 in London, I know, but that doesn't mean there as many places as there were.

[fross.livejournal.com]

Yes, most bands are now running it as an evenings-and-weekends thing that makes it look like a hobby for the middle-class, but that's because it's become largely impossible to go squat someplace and 'live' off the dole in order to pursue your art.

Bingo.

Which is why, also, there is so much more technology in goth music these days. These kids can afford to spend 500 quid on a synthesiser instead of three guitars. And they don't need to give up the day job learning to play them.

[countb.livejournal.com]

Doesn't Mr Mercer pronounce goth dead in every book he writes? It's a tradition now...

[hazeii.livejournal.com]

Well, yes...

I happen to like Goth just as it is...gently decaying, bitching, backstabbing, a slow downward spiral. Lovely.

[countb.livejournal.com]

absolutely, and may it carry on decaying forever!