Measure twice, perform Burroughsian cut-up once.

[hirez]

My brain's not working properly and my lungs are still hesitating over the idea of converting back to running on oxygen, but at least now I've an objective measure of how stupid I am (About capable of watching the wrong IP address scroll off the top of a rebooting machine's xterm) and how weak I am (About capable of hefting a 21" CRT, but I need a rest halfway to the back of the car).

Mind, it could be worse.

So anyway. The other week, I was pottering around an approved northern seaside attraction in the usual fine company, when we were accosted by a normal-looking but seemingly nervy sort of chap. I got the distinct impression that he was about three pints away from bus-station-nutter, but... It transpired he was a secondary school teacher from some rough corner of the Clyde and was having a deal of difficulty coming to terms with the suicide of two ex-pupils. Since they'd both been 'goths', he was down in Whitby looking for answers.

Now to my mind, if you're going to drop bombs akin to that on the likes of JH-R and Eris, you're going to get answers. However, you're probably not going to like them.

Which is what happened. I still don't know what to think, because his idea of a 'goth only' Samaritans was well-meant but patronising. Meanwhile, the other idea of having '(goth) community (mental) health professionals' fails to fly equally. What I'm reasonably sure about is that some seventeen-year-old at the end of its tether isn't going to listen to some well-meaning fortysomething, even if he does look the dead spit of Marylin Morrisons or whoever The Kids are Down with this week. But perhaps that's me abdicating responsibility, where people of the order of Lee Chaos, who're getting stuck into the problem, are doing the Right Thing.

Beats me. I hope the chap found the answers that gave him some peace.

Comments

[mr-flay.livejournal.com]

I keep trying to formulate a sensible answer to this blokey's problem, but I always wind up tying myself in knots. Ah, well. I shall satisfy myself instead with saying that I've recently met Dave Bradshaw, who said to say hello, and with whom I'll be spending a week in the desert this year. :D

[hirez.livejournal.com]

Well, indeed. It's more a Usenet sort of a problem, largely because I don't think I'm hand-wringy enough anymore.

Disco Dave. Yes. Good chap. Make sure he never gives you a lift in anything quicker than a bicycle.

not to joke but...

[zenmonkeykstop.livejournal.com]

They both were air-breathers too I'll bet. He should go to the Oxygen Conference next. Then it's off to BipedCon '06.

[malcygoff.livejournal.com]

Usenet sort of a problem

I think that AG is still busy with the last moral maze. Well, two members of it are at least...!

Anyway, it's a nice change from the WIG quesion that WGW seems to encourage. err. If you'll pardon the acronyms.

[aoakley.livejournal.com]

I keep trying to formulate a sensible answer to this blokey's problem, but I always wind up tying myself in knots

How about:

They were goths because they were suicidal. They were not suicidal because they were goths.

ie. they were already suicidal and picked a subculture which they believed (wrongly) fitted their state. So the goth thing wasn't really relevent to the suicides, and the chap was looking for answers in the wrong place.

[kissmeforlonger.livejournal.com]

Perhaps I'm overly optimistic in thinking that if someone wants to talk, they'll talk to anyone available who looks sympathetic and will empathise without patronising them.

[echo-echo.livejournal.com]

I agree, except I don't know that someone would neccessarily become a goth because they were already suicidal. I think they may well have become a goth because they had a particular mindset that led to an interest and possibly acceptance within the goth subculture. I don't know that that choice could be said to be 'wrongly', maybe goth suited their state particularly well? Without knowing the case in question I can't really comment on that. But as you say, I don't think people become suicidal because they are goths.

I'm speculating without hard evidence here, but if you are suffering from, and I am generally loathe to say illness because these things range from perfectly able to function to major clinical depression, a mental condition that could leave you in a suicidal mindset then the goth scene will generally be informed and supportive of that.

I don't think there is any doubt that depression is a very common ailment within the goth scene, but maybe by finding an acceptance and support within a scene has actually saved a good number of people from suicide?

But I agree, the affiliation with the goth scene is more likely to have been a result of other factors in these peoples lives and, as such, is an effect and not the cause. In which case, he is very much grasping the wrong end of the stick.

[hirez.livejournal.com]

Well, ye-es but...

... It seems to me that you get into that terminal state through not having the opportunity to talk about it. Or indeed not having the (self) knowledge to realise that your head-state can be defused by talking it out.

See, I've almost been there, but it was a long time ago and I've forgotten who I was then.

[hirez.livejournal.com]

Broadly. Maybe. That's a bit simplistic, though.

I can only speculate, but it seems to me that a subset of people get into gothery because they can maybe see a bit more to existing than knockoff Burberry and Buckfast tonic wine. Maybe bootstrapping themselves into an essentially middle-class subculture was beyond them.

Re: not to joke but...

[hirez.livejournal.com]

Absolutely.

[markeris.livejournal.com]

In chapter 2 he turns up to sexy sunday, stil in the same outfit but having acquired eyeliner and black lipstick from somewhere at which point it turns out that he went to Uni with CJ or something (there was much OMFGing anyway).

[operon.livejournal.com]

Said neighbour (and John's original protagonist) ought to read this (http://www.newscientist.com/channel/health/dn8996.html).

Andrew.

[quercus.livejournal.com]

Trick-cyclists at parties and social events need a variant on the Unix admin T shirt. It could have "No, I will not fix your head" printed on it.

[hirez.livejournal.com]

Good Lord. Good.

Everyone really does know everyone else.

[hirez.livejournal.com]

Mark did try to point him at it. Don't know if it stuck.

[markeris.livejournal.com]

I doubt it. I was written off as being "very very drunk" as I recall. Which, fair enough, wasn`t entirely a slanderous notion.